CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK SIX. conversation by clair and helen

"This earth, this world can never be healthy as long as this distinction exists between men and women.  And this world can never be at peace as long as this burning fire rages inside while we sit tightly on it.....This fire burns, it turns our life into ashes.  

I say to you that if you come to understand this fire, it is not an enemy.  It is a friend.  If you come to understand this fire,  it will not burn you.  It can warm your homes in winter, it can cook your food, it can be helpful, and it can become your friend in life."

Osho from his book 'sex matters'.

                                                                        ~ ~ ~

it seems to me, whenever something powerful exists, it has the capacity to be something life-enhancing or something life-depricating.  and in either way, and for the least,  when something  is powerful, its effects are nearly always meaningful.  

what shall we do with this fire?  warm our hands or burn our houses down?
clair 

 To understand the fire.....I suppose I am coming to see how much it is a matter of choice, in who we let into our lives, how we share ourselves with them, what we allow or disallow, what we give time to, who and what we nurture, how we nurture our own inner fires. I see fire as a healthy friend, even when it wants to destroy, we need to give it space to burn away what doesn't need to be in our lives anymore, what isn't serving us. Fire can work gently, disintegrating slowly, burning out quietly. It doesn't have to be ferocious although if we forget to honour it's potential it can quickly and easily put us at its mercy.

So somewhere we have responsibility, to tend the fire, to watch over it, to feed or water it when it needs. To love and give space to its power and life. 

helen

mmm....i tend to agree, in fact i dont think that any emotion is destructive.  i feel that all emotions exsist to give equilibrium and harmony to the emotional body.  every emotion.  but also that we can, like anything, abuse an emotion - overuse it, (or underuse it) or use it in a destructive way when it has really come to heal. 

the physical body has its thousand and one ways to heal.  ways we know nothing about - quietly and carefully and without actual awareness but with ultimate knowing, our body heals us.  again and again.  before we even feel ill.  

and we can oppress or disallow, abuse or let take over,  either type of healing.  

its about trust.  its about my trust in me. its about your trust in you. we are here to be well.  ....as my friend said recently (and i said to you) ' life loves us'. 

clair 

 I wanted to come back to the second line about sitting tightly on a fire, I wondered why we would do this within our ownselves.. to live tightly?.. to control, subdue or maintain a fire at an optimum level seems sensible but there's a fine line between how much we want and need sensibility in our own lives and how much it may be healthier to let our fires come to full fruition.

I'm really glad for my last relationship, as even though it was really hard work I found a place to fully reach my own fire and let it burn and come to full in some of the ways it needed to. Like any fire, it slowly coiled back and died down and now there's just a few embers left waiting to be resparked again. But we can spark our own fires. I feel like I'm done with waiting. Somehow we need responsibility to keep our own fires warm and sit on them as tightly or as loosely as we like. :)

indeed - ive never felt more true to this sentiment myself...that its me!. alone!  that i am the only one who i can (and should try) to take responsibility for!  the only flower who i can truely truely water... and its almost a surprise.  when i have been searching so long for another.

and of course, all the 'me's' are very special.  we each have one and they are our very special dancing partner.  dancing from the inside out.

how shall i be? what will enable peace in me?  what will enable the kind of  life my body and heart searches? and hard will i try?  its up to me! and its up to you for you!! how wonderfully correct!!  horrah!!!!*+ !

Ways I kindle my fire these days....
 
Helping my friend Jane with her allotment
 
'She rides' :
  http://sheridesbrighton.wordpress.com/

 
Getting involved with the work of Persephone Pearl, attending funerals for lost species :
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCUUaTVKJc
 
How do you nurture your fire? 
helen



lost species funerals sounds like a good project, fun and sad and strange and very sad because some species will never be seen or able to walk their little feet on this earth again.  and maybe they had something good to say?
:)

as for me, talking things through with myself is a good one - i think i'd go mad without it or else feel a lot less clear.  and i like clearness * * * connectng with things - in music and writing, in sharing * * * hope.  that gets me through a large amount. * * *   dreams - they get me through when hope's having a day off  * * * and serrendering to the arms of sleep.  a different journey not bound by the same limitations as other life and very very  very very relaxing.  what a dream!!!

are you enjoying this helen? :)  i am :)
clair x

yeah thanks, nice way to connect with you over a week. Might have a look at the book now... x

x

clair

CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK FIVE. conversation by clair and kathy

"Can it be that the very soul of human beings, is trying to give birth to a better human being, a greater human being, a superhuman being?".

Osho from his book 'sex matters'.

                                                                        ~ ~ ~

im feeling, over many thousands of years...a massive passage of tiime, the human being might give birth to a more peaceful and creative human. one who is looking at the sun.  one is looking from her heart.  one who is giving rather than counting. one who is dripping love like an angel....

clair

I do sometimes wonder.  Are we any different from our ancestors?  There still seems to be so much anger, hate and pain in this world.  And yet ... yet things do improve.  Things do get better. Slowly. We, as human beings, are less tolerant of injustice, hate and persecution.  We strive for better.  We try to imbue better for our children and their children.  As I write I feel a wave of optimism. We are, slowly, becoming better human beings.  At the end of the day all we ever want is peace.  It's a long time coming, we may stumble and fall and get hurt on the way, but, I don't feel it's a fantasy.  I feel that with love and patience we can become greater human beings.

Kathy

'giving birth to a better human being' ....such a lovely idea isnt it, its tiny progress - with as many wars as exsist on our planet earth right now, it would have to be, but maybe, like pebbles, over zillions of years turn, into fine sand beneath our feet, the world will slowly have its edges filed off and become as sweet and the day itself was born.  and like a baby its will cry for all its wounds and the people will hold hands round the whole world, and in union peace will be born in each of our hearts with earth smiling through each plant and animal it touches.

we are the earths eyes.  through us it sees.  how it feels we must feel. 

clair 

Each one of us are but mere pebbles on the beach.  This is humbling.  To think that each of us, with all our relationships, jobs, families, dramas, lives, are just mere pebbles on a beach and all that we think is so grand and important is, in fact, of no significance at all.  We can become so embroiled with things; new clothes, the latest, must have, gadget, surgical procedures to so we build ourselves to our image.  It's so crass, boring, insubstantial.  When I walk amongst nature; see the each season in turn, and what it has to offer, hear the birdsong, I am reminded that I am part of a bigger whole.  I am but a pebble on the beach.  All that can be strived for is progress, not perfection.  And progress is being made, slowly and surely. And with each turning of the page perfection comes a tiny step nearer. Much is talked about the human condition - we are very often powerless. Yet...the human soul cries out for more and I do believe that the soul shall triumph.  Our dreams shall come to light.

Kathy

mmm...nice like mice :) 

i'm on a productivity high (good mood because of  doing lots of things on your to do list)

yum.  

yum again.

im also on a health high (good health following flu or some other heath difficulty) and although i still have a nasty cough deep in my throat i am able to have a health high beacuse its all relative;)

what small things are doing it for you at the moment kathy pebble ? :)

clair

Fat as a rat by the bins of the Savoy :) (I over did the festivities a bit.  But it was great.)

Cherishing my spare tyre, accepting and loving me as I am, crows feet, cellulite, laughter lines an all.  Adds a bit character me thinks.  

The bare branches of trees silhouetted against the sky, birdsong, tips of daffodils poking through the earth, cream cakes, warm scented baths; my cat, curled up and purring on my knee, cream cakes.  Chopping winter vegetables for a comforting stew, watching the birds from my kitchen window.  Oh, have I mentioned cream cakes?

These are a few of my favourite things that keep me going through the winter months.

Kathy

they were a real pleasure to read :)

everybodies special secret life...i saw the first sign of daffodiles popping through the earth today...they think it must be spring.  but its not.  its janruary and  winter has still got its hat on, though its been wearing it very modestly this year i must admit although the air is a little cooler today.  but the sun is a little warmer so it probably equals itself out.  emotionally anyway.  yes you did mention cream cakes ;)  what is it about eating - how it becomes more and more enjoyable as we get older ?... im sure i was never really bothered  about food when i was younger, but these days am bothered. and i am thinking about it.  full fridge satisfaction leading to full tum satisfaction. ;)

everything changes.  every cycles. and i enjoy things i never used to pay concern to.  i remember my nanna offereing me £30 for fruit and vegetables when i was a kid.  i was so disappointed i thought she may as well have not bothered!  vegetables i thought!!  what a waste of spending money!!!   my mum gives me them for free!!!  ungrateful little sprog clearly.  but then she got me at the wrong time.  these days i would smile my pants off to be given £30 to spend on fruits and vegetables ;)

your nest sounds nice, your kitchen window.  i am hoping for a new safer one soon.

clair

Thirty squid to spend on fruit and veg! What a feast that would be.  I wouldn't have been very impressed as a child either. I'd much preferred money for black jacks, flying saucers, liquorice wheels, gob stoppers and spangles.  The old cliché about tastes changing as we get older is so true.  But I wouldn't have it any other way.  I enjoy much simpler things these days.  I suspect I enjoy food more these days is because I have to go out, get it, prepare it and cook it.  I enjoy eating out because I don't have to go out, buy it, prepare it and cook it.  I just eat it ;)

I've attempted growing veg, not very successfully it has to be said, but I have experienced a squeak of joy at fresh spuds at the table or rocket in my salad.

Yesterday, as I stood a beam of sunshine outside work, a bee buzzed by and sat on the wall.  The poor thing seemed disorientated, fooled by the brief sunny spell.  Yes, it is only January and although it's mild I can't help but wonder, Is winter trying to lull us into a sense of false security only  strike with a vengeance?  Who knows? I certainly don't.  I'm just enjoying the blue skies and rays of sun.  It makes me smile. 

I enjoy the changing of seasons, the cycles of change.  Each has it's beauty, something to offer. Winter is no longer something to be got through but enjoyed.  A wise man once said to me, "Enjoy, not endure." Sadly, he passed away a few years ago, but I'm so glad I knew him, he enriched my life.

I hope you find a safer new nest soon.  One you can line with feathers (Or whatever takes your fancy.) and make cosy and enjoy.

Kathy

thank you kathy pebble, it has been a real pleasure writing with you over this week :)) 

'enjoy not endure'. 

my sentiments exactly ! (although i can be a complaining old licorice allsort ! ! ;) )  hee hee

clair X

Thank you Clair.  It's been wonderful.

Kathy xxx

CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK FOUR. conversation by clair and kat

"Love has only one sadness: when it cannot share; love is sad when it cannot give.  Love is happy when it can share.  When it can give totally, love is happiest".

Osho from his book 'sex matters'.

                                                                        ~ ~ ~

mmm! gosh! what is it to share?  sometimes i think about all the animals and that they can be divided into catergories of socialable one and alone seeking ones or  maybe a bit of both.  like you are not supposed to keep donkeys alone because they are socialable animals who used to live with each other in warm africa.  you shouldnt keep them in the rain eaither.  cos there coats, unlike cows, are not waterproof.... they are african and they always will be...to some extent of their needs and there preferences...

are humans naturally social animals?  i guess they are be defined as so... 

"Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 195000 years ago" so wiki sais so we are african too!   but have lived away from africa for a longer time...

and we live in houses cos our fur has all dropped off!  anyway, loves need to share... yeah! what do you think about this all kat? :)

clair

Well talkin of waterproof, as rather handily  we humans are, I've just come from the spa and that's definitely a lot more lovely  with other humans innit. Just aswell our furs all dropped off too, as that definitely  wouldn't have been so lovely an experience  ;)
cat

no fur in  the spa! !  thats a bit animalist isnt it, you being a kat and all that ;) 
anyway, its just make me  think about all the animals and how they keep warm...cos not all animals have fur or much body mass..... like the humble insect! !. no fur and hardly any body mass atall!  clever little creatures clearly,  little ants being my favourite. as well as moths and lady birds.   although  i must admit, moths do clearly have a little bit of fur.

my research tells me that insects are basically cold blooded and that means they can't (and dont need) to keep a contant temperature like us and other warm blooded creatures, although, cold-blooded animals, such as bees or dragonflies, do shiver a little to stay warm when it is really too cold and honey bees stay warmer by crowding together and  by giving each other  little hugs which sounds like sensible approach to me ;)


we are all so different.  its easy to forget about insects because they are very small.
clair 

Yes! Easy to forget about insects-unless they are wasps of course. Fur or no fur (or very little fur ) - en mass they're just like a flying stinging stripey fur ball of antagonism)   We all just wish we could forget them eh? But NO! Whenever things are goin swell n the sun is shinin n your in the woods with your cornedbeef n crisp sandwiches n its almost a Cliff Richard moment (when the holiday bus suddenly rolls up n loads of astonishingly glowing healthy young people pour out n sweep you up in their  holiday swirl.) JUST at that minute THEY arrive... Why??? One thing I have learnt is that they're very unlikely to turn up in the spa due to their fur load and you're much more likely to encounter Cliff Richard. . probably..possibly..  so I'm told..which is one of the reasons I may allegedly bee keepin my  attendance up. Bee hugging by the way sounds nice but risky.. ;)Trees top them by a mile..or at least a few feet I reckon..  ;) x 


thats where i go wrong cat, i keep hugging bees...suddenly so obvious but what can i do when they are so cute looking and furry (even if they are full of fury?)
clair

CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK THREE. conversation by clair and sean

"The ganges flows from the himalayas.  It is natrual for it to flow; it is alive, it has water, it will flow and it will find the ocean.  It will not ask a policemen or a priest for directions to the ocean.  Have you ever sen a river standing at a crossroads asking a policeman where the ocean is? No, the search for the ocean is hidden in its being.  And it has energy so....the river will surely find it.

But suppose dams are crated in her way?  Suppose high walls are contructed all around the river.  What then?  A river overcomes and breaks through natrual barriers, but if barriers of human engineering are created, then it is possible that she may not reach the ocean".


Osho from his book 'sex matters'.

                                                                        ~ ~ ~

harmony, love and finding our way are natrual ways of being.   loving our earth, ourselves and each other is a natural path.  every morning i wake to a different kind of world.  me too, am now part of the dam which has been made.  maybe i can  reform it slightly, change its colour or its energy just a little bit.  all of us, individually and ultimately together, could transform the whole world, in a moment.

clair

If I ask others 'will the sun rise tomorrow?' they always seem emphatically assured it will for the nature they attribute, knows no limitations outside themselves....but should I ask 'will world peace happen today?' they tell me as sure as the sun will rise that it shall not be (if ever) in their lifetimes. We are masters of our own limitations, imprisoning our imagination which longs to frolic amongst the stars, to play servant to a limited understanding of who we are and thereby what we could actually achieve in this single, eternal, and precious moment, pregnant with possibility.  Perhaps, if we answered our hopes and dreams - not from who we construct ourselves to be, but from allowing ourselves to speak from who we authentically are, as sure as dragon-flys effortlessly dancing and making love on the pond of a sweet spring morning, we could be cradling and sustaining world peace in our very hands, right here, right now, and in the blink of an eye.   

paralemptor

good work sean, and may i ask, will the sun, when it rises tomorow, be world peace?

For whom does it rise?

When time dawns for the sun of inevitability, in the light of the truth, we see world peaces primacy (amongst all other dreams) was also in our hands all along - never lost and never truly forgotten. Awakened, not then could the shadows in our hearts and minds obscure us from openly honouring and nurturing this perennial part of ourselves from which all else follows to fruition; even in the darkest moments. 

For in truth and hind-sight, such realisation would be less a serendipitous discovery, but auspicious remembrance of who we are: A candle flame, standing steadfast and bright, unhindered by the frightening maelstrom of an brief but unforgiving blustery night in the wet forest.

Such a flame, inspires others, and inevitably lights up the whole world wherever one peers, carrying with it solace, comfort, and nourishing kindness for all creatures above and below from which it reflects and generates in all directions. World peace as such is inescapable, and it's antithesis merely a passing exception, or a dissolving cloud.

paralemptor x

god yeah!  ....  the fact that we have managed to avoid peace for so long long is almost uncalculatable...!!!  that we have missed this ongoing opportunity to live peace....!  if only every one knew....!!   i think we are under an umbrella of difficulites in the world on the one hand and also under a kind of 'learnt helplessness' umbrella - the notion that the world has to be this way...

how can everyone get to know that if just each tiny weeny individual planted peaceful days in their gardens  then the whole world would be peaceful?

maybe we could send postcards round through letterboxes or maybe we could start a facebook page?  

or maybe the shining face of the sun, or stars or moon, will one day tell everyone of the secret of peace.  that if we all stop 'fighting' in our many different ways and shades, peace will avail without any special reciepe or plan.

Osho was telling a story, in the book that the passages for this chapter are taken, about a scultptor whos onlooker was enquiring where the sculpture was cos all she could see was a greak hunk of stone.  the sculptor replied that the sculpture was already in there inside, waiting, and just the correct pieces needed to be chipped and taken away and there there would be the shinning scupture in all its light and and beauiful glory.

clair

Lovely Clair :)

Yes the obscurations are everywhere, not least in the premises of our perceptions. To bridge the veil thats formed between our facsimile and our authentic nature may happen in any instant at any time, and logically is happening at every moment. It seems there is no one path to doing it, there are as many as there are people....and more. 

It's as if the nature of reality all around is crying the song of the same eternal story in its multitude of variations, writhing between the orgiastic pleasure and pain of simulated seperation. Which it is! - and that song and story emanates from us too, should we take the profound opportunity to face it in the mirror, see it, and behold it.

I sense that regardless of the predictions of skeptics or prophets alike, a great wave of truth for humanity is already upon us. Crashing in around us faster than any tsunami of rocket fire and ignorance currently making the news. It's a story, and we are all tellers of that story as well as its actors. As each layer of illusion dissolves in this incredible time to witness, it shall expose another beneath it waiting to reveal more secrets. 

These times will happen only notably at certain times in history-books, and we are privileged in many ways to be here in the front seats, if only for a momentary lifetime, to feel the flood water come rushing between our toes.

I liked the story of Oshos sculptist. It reminded me of a story my mother told me once, of when she took me to the zoo, and took an elephant right up to me - I wasn't bothered at first because all I could see was a grey wall in front of me. It wasn't until she pointed out to me that I was looking at one if four enormous legs suspending a tremendously expansive creature above me that I burst in to tears.

As always I fail to be brief, and simultaneously feel like I've never said enough.

Peace,

paralemptor x

 yes, ignorance can be bliss ;)  i refer to the greyness you saw until you realised it was a huge animals colour and  who  eventually scaced you.  it also reminds me that there are many people who arent thinking about all these things, who also arent thinking that we are withn a special moment, or a moment of revolution, about 20/12 , about the notion of conspiracy., the idea that the govenment  might have investied interests,  people who do not have these ideas in their consciousness and thinking.

arnd maybe, if your mind isnt in these places, the world is already at peace?  ( except for the little bit of turmoil found on the news on tv....?)  

we are all our own sculptures

clair

Hi Clair, how are you? 

We are indeed our own sculptures, to the point that we are allow our sculptures to take ownership of who we believe ourselves to be. It is in actuality, the closest to a self fulfilling prophecy as one can get.

I suspect that human kind goes through waves of intense collective awareness at times, so intense that it appears to break the surface of our everyday existence like a giant leviathan coming up for air after aeons of resting on the ocean floor. At other times it is not seen for centuries, or visits only in the depths of individual dreams where it is safe from regular ostensible recognition. For such periods, ignorance is a kind of bliss, and to wear knowledge can often seem a curse for many.

The process of emergence from this slumber I find particularly fascinating, particularly as it appears in the collective awareness. I'm reminded of the many versions of ’Invasion of the Body Snatchers’ which illustrate through the various remakes, different ways that an awakening like this can occur. Despite all the rewards such a process can promise, there is much fear, paranoia, alienation, and internal doubt that can play havoc with the well being of those going through it. Metaphorically or not, there is a kind of fatality to it, a death to face.

Perhaps the clearest litmus test for this kind of internal struggle showing itself to be present is in the way our civilisation has reflected itself in the absence of wholeness - we are bound by division everywhere we look - there are locks and keys on everything and we are increasingly polarised to extremes; we suffer from a great mistrust of ourselves while participating with each other. Of course we know this wasnt always the case, our grandparents or even parents will happily recount the days when we left the house unlocked, or we allowed our children to walk unaccompanied to school- things we could now easily regard as fool hardy in the current climate.

To get really esoteric I'd go as far as suggesting that our predatory nature, once put to use for warding off sabre tooth tigers and eating mammoth, has now turned in on itself, and we now predate on each other, and ultimately on ourselves. Our entire system is predatory, we are trained to compete and compare, to gain a mafia monopoly, and yet we are astonished when the fruits of such a system shows no mercy to us as individuals. It's incredibly Faustian.

It looks as if the humble man and woman, originally perhaps, gentle gardeners of spaceship earth have been highjacked, their minds sullied by some cosmic trauma, and in the brief absence of mind lost a piece of themselves in the stars. But it has happened many times before, and it will happen again. Consigned to walk the earth, dig, mine, set up shop, and toil for millennia under a strange possession compelled by an idea that somewhere 'out there' lies the comfort and happiness they once knew.

It's the intensely alien nature of all this behaviour that makes me suspect some kind of monkey business is at play which is never dared spoken of. I'm not saying that animals don't enact genocide or even ecocidal tendencies - because they surely do, but in the fine print of some of life's organisms there are specific key observations that can be made that I think point the way to some earth shattering implications if we look at them. As such, I think sometimes a healthy open mindedness and interest in parasitology can be potentially quite enlightening.

Peace

paralemptor x

but hasnt the sun brought with her world peace....she has risen on 5 occassions since we spoke?

... i was at a punk/ska gig last nite, sometimes the sounds were like war and i actually  found it quite funny, it kinda blew the cobwebs away i would imagine...

my hair was particularly clean and tidy and i was alone.  some nice man spoke to me and offered me some of his cloudy cider.  he reminded me of iain curtis of joy division, that kind of 80's bomber jacket stylee, he told me he would be playing guitar in the next band but it was funny, he was actually the singer..... the nice guy making polite conversation with the cloudy cider became the punk hero with the lyrics on the mic - a perfect, strong and funny transformation.

thats what the suns gotta do, spit some lyrics and get as all to turn round, burn up all our greed in one single moment and leave only our peaceful sculptures,  the bit in the middle, all badass and goodass and loving and real.
clair

CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK TWO. conversation by clair and mark

" More love can be seen, in the birds, animals and plants, who have no religion or culture, than in humans.  More love can be seen in the backward tribesman of the jungles - who have no developed religion, cilvilization or culture - than in the so-called progessive, cultured, and civilized people of today."
Osho from his book 'sex matters".
.

                                                                        ~ ~ ~

i love osho but osho, for me,  can be a little mean....i have been reading his book 'sex matters' and the exert seen here is one of the more positive ones.  in this book, he claims there is no love in the humans of today and none neither over the last ten thousand years and none due in the next ten thousand.

osho does support the idea that humans are not exactly to blame but points his finger at culture and religion as the culprits for poisoning humans to which it feeds.  i feel too, that mass media - tv being a big player - and society,  including its obsession around money, power and greed, are indeed poisons and ones which are taken in large doses by masses of the worlds people.

but i feel too,  that humans have complete and perfect potential to love and live in truely loving and harmonic ways.

imagine, a human is born.  you know nothing about humans but you are told that they have 5 senses : touch, sight, hearing, smell and taste and they have been born onto a world of fresh water, seas and fertile planes.....by a sinple touch, physically or though words or gesture,  people can feel good, free, alive and loved.

our potential is staggering..

i once heard someone say that if it was just a very small world and one that we could hold in the palm of our  hand, maybe we could take care of it better.  but people have got segregated and lost in its giganticness giddyness..... in its conditioning...  its mass media and its culture and have entirly lost their way.

but this is not the only way.  it will not take an army.   it will take responsible, sober, and thoughtful  individuals to stand up and be what their kindest dreams show.

clair

I dont know who osho is.

I suppose what feels so loving about nature (birds, trees animals etc) is that it is unconditional, non-judgemental and completely accepting of itself and who we are. Nature is never bothered about what clothes we wear, how our hair looks etc. Which are elements of love. 

But nature is also selfish, competitive and uncompromising. 

It just is. 

If we were not civilised and living in judgeful society, we could never experience nature as completely accepting.

I believe you cant fully experience what something is, without experience what it isnt.

Its all love.

Its us, humans, who change its character by the way we interact with it. Our reality is a mirror of what is going on inside our own hearts and minds. 

You have to leave something to know you want it.

You have to lose something to find it

Mark

yes, the unjudgemental aspect of nature is quite badass  i must admit ;)  ...nature is not bothered about hair style, nail varnish or toe colour or going on trips abroad to search for the sun.

how different it it from us...our needs and desires  ....

do you like clothes?  are some attractive?  can some even bring a physical response or a heart felt one? 

its not wrong.  its differnt. what turns us on.  what brightens and clouds our day.  that things can brighten or cloud our day. 
clair

do i like clothes?

Yeah I suppose that I do. And I do like certain clothes over others. 

Am I making this choice on my own?

I dont care enough about my appearance, not to go along with what is considered mainstream. A reason to wear what I would consider nice clothes is to look attractive, to women, but also to people around me.I think you have to accept that we all make judgements on a persons appearance. I wouldnt deny myself the opportunity to look 'better', by wearing clothes that I think will achieve that.

I choose how to respond to things around me and I have a choice how to treat myself. 

I have become more aware of how I treat myself and how I speak to myself automatically or subconsciencely So i must make a conscience effort to be more loving towards myself. 

Im trying not to give myself such a hard time.Try and be the best person I can be, but accept that I am where I am.

Some days are just hard on the heart, for whatever reason.

Mark

mmm...very sensible.... yesterday i took part in a group meditation where we had to lye down and imagine our bodies being burned after we dye...it was a very unusual task and unusual to imagine - from our feet to our head all burnt and turning into ashes...and not so we could  feel the pain or sadness of such an event but on the contray,  simply  the relief of not needing to feel pain - of the heart or the flesh...of not needing to take care of our body and  the freedom that that brings...and then  to imagine ourselves as only sprit, free as a soul bird and as content as a blade of deep green grass....

clair

  

as content as a blade of deep green grass

That sounds lovely.

Here is a poem by a fella called Ryokan:

The flower invites the butterfly with no mind

The butterfly visits the flower with no mind

The flower opens, the butterfly comes

The butterfly comes, the flower opens

I dont know others

They dont know me

By not knowing, we follow natures course

 

i very much like the first four lines of this poem

 

yes, blades of deep green grass are lush. 

 

CHAPTER FOUR  - OSHO

WEEK ONE. conversation by clair and simon

"What is love?


To live it and know it is very easy, but to put it into words is difficult.  It is like asking a fish "What is the sea?" the fish will say "This is the sea. it is all around, all over". But if you insist - please define the sea, dont just indicate" - then the problem becomes really difficult for the fish.

Osho from his book 'sex matters".
.

 ~ ~ ~

actually, the fish wouldnt mind and the fish wouldnt care.  he or she would not see the difference between him or herself and the sea.  and he or she would not know or think about whether she or he is a he or a she ;)   how clever of the fish....something humans take years of meditation to master  ! ;)

non human animals are clearly enlightened...and modest too! ;)

clair

Osho's fish is a talking, thinking fish. If a fish can think it can have thoughts about itself. If it can do this it could come to believe that it is those thoughts and was therefore separate from the sea it was swimming in.

If you can think you can become lost in your thoughts, construct a hell out of them. But would you really rather be mindless?

Simon

i wouldnt rather what i am not. and the fish wouldnt rather what she is not.  i domt think about preferance, its about what is natural and being that...

i would like to think and not to make a hell out of my thinkings....i was imagining a couple of das ago, that the world was like a computer game where we all have special powers and tools and all all have special demons and dark sides where the purpose of the game one might imagine would be to nuture the special powers and dertimate the dark side....some how it doenst always work out like that.  

wish i was me.

clair

There is no hell like an old hell.

To become enlightened is to escape from illusion. Animals know neither enlightenment or illusion. Not that this makes them worse than us, or indeed better.

I would like to play your computer game but it is quite different to life. Darkness and light can't not be entirely separated from each other Darkness contains light within it and vice versa. You can not defeat your darkness, in the same way as a priest can not become pure by becoming celibate/ denying his lust.  

Thoughts don't always lead to Hell but there can be no Hell without thought. Thoughts are fine so long as you do not think you are your thoughts. You are you Clair, you just aren't who you think you are.

mmm! 'there can be no hell without thoughts' ..but .what about physical pain, is that reliant on thought to make it real or able to be felt?  ... 

exactly, unlike a computer game where things are divided into good and desirable and bad and undesirable, lifes light is reliant on its darkness.  is that why darkness exists perhapes...to strenghten the light?

why do you say that animals are living in illusion?  i would say they are not living an illusion and thus they might well be enlightened.

i met a young calf from morroco.  she was black and white and very tame.  the sun was strong.  she shaded under a fig tree.  she hadnt met me before.  i hadnt met her.  her rope was twisted around her leg.  we freed it when she moved one way and i moved it the other.  i would have said that she was full of meditaion. 

clair

Thoughts can make you feel lost and separate. Pain can not. But the thoughts you may have about your pain could. You can build a hell out of thoughts but not out of pain. 

I said animals do not know illusion, not that they are living within it. To become enlightened is to escape from illusion. Animals can not become enlightened because they aren't trapped in an illusion in the first place. Though what enlightened people and animals have in common, I've heard it said, is full awareness of the present moment. 

I don't think light and darkness exist for any particular reason though your reason is as good as any. 

In what way did the calf seem full of meditation?

the calf was very present and very full of peace.  her life, to date i belive, had been fair to her and had not predisposed her to the fear that english cows experince.  she was living in a little morrocan garden with two other cows and was looked after by the family who lived there.... and she didnt have to get in the 'correct' posture or position, cross her legs or tilt her hooves in the right direction  to meditate ;)

It genuinely does seem like a beautiful, tranquil scene. But can a cow, or any life form, meditate without deepening its breathing, observing its thoughts and/ or visualising a golden light, etc? Do cows know how to do any of these things?  Cows don't need to meditate because they can't get lost in their minds. Humans can respect other life forms without having to see them in the way we see ourselves. x

i absolutely agree X

CHAPTER THREE  -  Rumi. 

WEEK EIGHT. conversation by clair and tom

"Flow down and down in always
widening rings of being..".
.

Rumi

 ~ ~ ~

They walk in the park and come across the stump of a giant tree. They study its rings of growth and point out historical dates. She indicates a point in space outside the circumference of the tree and hears herself say: 'This, is where I come from...'
Tom  

its not right and its not wrong. its just a feeling.  like everything, is just a feeling.   and happiness, is just a feeling.  

he needs a smaller house,  she needs a great big  ranch, to give that same feeling.   
she needs to be adored, he needs to live abroad, to get that same feeling. 
he needs a little mouse and she needs a very small louse to get that same feeling.  
she needs a strippy ren, he needs a family of 10 to get that same feeling.

what do you need?  
clair

As you journey along a path you meet an old man.

 

He tells you that modern neuroscience has proved that all our actions and decisions are merely the machinations of a predetermined universe and that our concept of free will is naught but a comforting illusion.

 

If you agree with his hypothesis, turn to page 72

 

If you disagree, turn to page 72

tom

   

:)..... here we are then, on page 72 i guess.. thing is,  its the same page either way you look at it..... cos  if we are predestined to make all the decisions we make or if we are not predesined.... my destiny might be that i change my mind a lot.  it might be that i dont. 

i feel like i have lost my path over the last few weeks.  my minds wings have decayed  into an old cabbage.  i keep saying no instead of yes, its almost a relief. ... but only almost.

c

If you look then friends, lovers, opportunities, objects, desires, interests, ideas... will come in and out of your life, some will stay forever, some for a long time and some for only for a short while.

 

I enjoy the idea of compartmentalising parts of my life, like chapters in book. As, like the coast, things are always changing. An appreciation of the beauty of natural things, small things, achievements, experience and a love of creativity... For me, gives meaning to life and is the veil that separates us from beasts. Otherwise we’re just a million little gods, causing rainclouds, turning every good thing to rust.  

Should I end up old, sitting in a home, waiting to die. I want be looking out over the sea, looking back over my life and relationships with people and be content with how I conducted myself and confident that I made the most out of the opportunities life offered. And I hope the empty shells and bones those stories will litter and clutter the shores. And I hope that when I find them, I'll remember how they danced and the racket they made, when they were alive.

tom

 

that was a great piece of writing. especially :

'the veil that separates us from beasts. Otherwise we’re just a million little gods, causing rainclouds, turning every good thing to rust'.  

i love that as an image. love it.

yes, we are all sculptors sculping our lifes.  we develop our own tools, colour them, sharpen them, blunt them, shape things with them or destoy shapes with them. 

i think i am quite proud at my shaping and keeping them and doing good with them.......but  when someone else gets hold of my tools and starts cutting into the shapes i have made, the fear which develops and lack of control over this intrution kind of poisons the flight that my sculpture was starting to resemble ! 

and so its a good idea to develop clear boundaries incorporating a big sign saying 

'keep off my land ! '

in big letters like this but in fact better in even bigger red ones like this ! ! !   :

'keep off my land !'

and an electric fence to finish it all off!  hee hee

clair

 

I see flickers of a former self, and fleet glances to the side.

Reassured by hollow impressions, there are scraps there that we hide.

And fate chance those bits thought swallowed, mightn’t have gone, but crystallised.

And the intemperance of our experience, will serve only to sting our eyes.

And In the wake of all that comes to pass, from this life's gentle sip.

When we bewail our saddest elegy, and go down with this fine ship.

I hope with emphatic politeness, passed down from years gone by.

That some will stand in the furore and show, how Englishman can die..

Tom

thanks tom ,writing with you has been a pleasure c

It’s been a lovely thing to do. Thank you. x T